DROP, W, & P/NC: WHAT THEY MEAN TO YOU AS A PREHEALTH STUDENT
updated: 28 March 2008
IMPORTANT NOTE: Make sure to consult the academic calendar on the REGISTRAR'S HOMEPAGE for the current deadlines to drop, withdraw, or take a course on a P/NC basis!
INTRODUCTION
A good number of prehealth students on campus get to know or know of Professor Harvard Lyman. He teaches biochemistry, cell biology, and other advanced biology courses. His research focuses on euglena gracilis and photosynthesis, and once a year he teaches a course about wine as a challenging diversion from his scientific pursuits. Having taught advanced level biology courses for a number of years, he also has a good deal of familiarity with prehealth students, and what tends to work and what doesn't in the way they map out and study for their courses. With this last fact in mind, we decided to ask his opinion about Drops, W's, and P/NC's. Once you have begun to take the courses you registered for, there are not a lot of choices that you have. Option 1 is to change the way you do things. You can study harder and better (almost always a good idea), study in the same way and for the same amount of time that you always do (sometimes a good idea, but often dangerous if this is your first semester after high school), or study less (almost always a bad move). Option 2 is to change the amount of what you do--the tools to accomplish this are usually Drops, W's, P/NC's, and perhaps incompletes. Professor Lyman had some insights and valuable advice about each of these options. Before we start, though, you should keep in mind that Professor Lyman's insights are not a substitute for your being aware of the degree requirements and academic regulations of the Undergraduate Bulletin. The purpose of this interview is to help you to think realistically and productively about the "administrative tools" you have at your disposal to safeguard your academic record. Once you have mastered that realistic and productive way of thinking, it should be easier for you to move onto achieving two important goals that intertwine: first, learning as much as you can as well as you can; second, building a strong academic record. Remember that if you have any questions about academic policies, procedures, regulations and how they affect you, you should always consult with the people at Academic Advising at Melville Library, room E2360.INTERVIEW
James Montren: Professor Lyman, could you briefly describe each of these options a student has--dropping, withdrawing, getting a P/NC, or going for an incomplete--as strategies students can use to ensure that their academic work doesn't get completely our of control, and that they don't wind up with a disaster on their hands?
Professor Lyman: Let me talk about the strategy part first. Students usually just think of their transcript as a thumbnail sketch of how they did on a bunch of tests. A transcript is more than that, though. A transcript is a record of the results of choices that a student has made. Schools of the health professions like good grades, but they also have an interest in that decision-making component, since they want to admit and train problem solvers, people who can make the right decisions--even when they are working under pressure and distractions. This is why it is absolutely crucial for a student to be aware of all the choices they can make throughout the course of a semester--these drops, W's, and P/NC's that you are asking me about. Look at it this way. If you are not aware of all the different options you have, what kind of decision-maker will you be? Not a very good one. So even if a student never has to drop a course, or withdraw, or take it on a pass no credit basis, or get an incomplete--even if a student never does ny of those things, it is a very poor reflection on them as a decision maker if they did not read the bulletin and learn about those options. The undergraduate bulletin is the road map to your education, and in this business you don't get very far without a road map.
James Montren: Now, can you tell us a bit about each of those options?
Professor Lyman: Sure, Jim. A drop is a clean break. A student can get out of a course early in the semester and there is no indication on the transcript that they were ever in the course. With a W the student gets out of the course, but there is an indication on the transcript that they were enrolled. With a P/NC, the student gets a grade, but not a letter grade--if they pass with any grade, they get a P on their transcript, but if they fail they get a "no credit," NC mark, on their transcript. If a student asks their professor for an incomplete, they are pretty much trying to buy more time to finish up the course, and they have to get it done next semester.
James Montren: Now, outside of the fact that with a W you get a "mark" on your transcript, the main difference between a drop and a W is time.
Professor Lyman: Right. For a student to drop they have to get out early--the deadline this semester is February 1st. This semester, a student has until April 14th to decide on whether or not to withdraw. So, very often it's tough for students to make the decision to drop. Classes started on January 19th--that means that students have 14 days to figure out if they are in over their heads. They have to decide that without the benefit of grades from any major tests. It sounds like a contradiction in terms, but a student has to study and work pretty hard to find out if they are in over their head. They have to go over the material and try to really understand it, quiz themselves with problems from the book, or maybe with mock professional tests like the MCAT, the AHPAT, the GRE, the DAT or the OAT. A lot of students don't put in the time and effort to make use of the drop option, and they wait for the first big test. That's okay, too--because you can withdraw if you wait for feedback. Over the years, I've noticed that it can be harder for a student to figure out what they are not capable of. Finding out what you can do is easier--and less painful usually. The other thing is that students who really seize those first days of the semester and study and self-test to the point where they know if they are out of their depth and overloaded--most of the times, those are the students who don't have to drop or withdraw, they go on to get pretty decent grades, and if they're smart, they maintain the good discipline that they had in the first few days of the semester.
James Montren: They build momentum, you mean.
Professor Lyman: I'm a biochemist, not a physicist. Now, if a student foregoes the drop they have a couple of months to agonize over the next dilemma. Should I take my course for a letter grade, should I withdraw, P/NC, or should I try to get an incomplete? Withdrawals and incompletes have the same problem built into them that the drop does. If you drop, withdraw, or get an incomplete, you really can't go on to the next course in the sequence. If you drop, withdraw, or get an incomplete in CHE 131, you can't go on to CHE 132--and even if you somehow enrolled for CHE 132 you would be setting yourself up for complete disaster since you haven't mastered the first half of the sequence. If a student goes for a letter grade or a P/NC they can go on to the next course in the sequence, provided they pass.
James Montren: So, all in all, how would you describe the difference between a W and a P/NC?
Professor Lyman: Well, they are both face-saving devices. A student opts for them because they don't want medical schools or other health professions schools to see a bad letter grade like a D on their transcript. A W tells admissions people that the student opted to get out, a P/NC tells that a student decided to stick it out. But med schools and other schools are smart. When they see a W they know that things would have been pretty ugly if a student stayed in--but if the rest of the transcript is strong, all that a W indicates is prudence in the face of adversity. You know, "Discretion is the better part of valor," and all that. When they see an NC, they know it's the equivalent of an F, and when they see a P the can guess that the student got a D or better--probably toward the low end.
James Montren: Yeah, but W's and P/NC's don't count into the student's GPA.
Professor Lyman: That's a cosmetic advantage, Jim. Those grades don't count into the GPA, but when the school actually takes a look at the transcript, they see the W's and the P/NC's and they know that something went wrong. The bottom line is that in all the years I have been teaching, I've never had a student come back to me and say, "I got into med school because I withdrew from that one course I was doing badly in." By the same token, I've never seen a student not get into a good health professions school because of one W or one P/NC or one C. Students have to establish a pattern on their transcripts-- a pattern that says they can do well consistently. There has to be more than one W or one P/NC to sink a student; if there is a pattern of them, then the student is in trouble. And of course if a student withdraws from a prehealth prerequisite course, they have to take it again for a letter grade. If a student gets an NC, they have to retake, and if a student gets a P they almost always have to do a retake, unless there ar some very unusual circumstances--unusually good ones, I mean. And the P/NC option is limited--for example, if you're a Biochemistry major, you can't use P/NC for BIO 310. The P/NC option could be a good thing if used to take a very challenging course outside of one's major, but the option should be used in this case sparingly.
James Montren: What about an incomplete?
Professor Lyman: Well, it's no magic bullet. What it does is give the student extra time to finish up their work for a particular course. The work has to be finished some time near the mid point of the semester. The specific dates are in the bulletin. If a student is doing rather well in a course, but their work load is beginning to get out of control and be too much--in that case an incomplete might be the way to go. An incomplete does nothing to erase bad grades, though. If a student did badly on their first two tests in a course--let's say D's--and they get an incomplete, they delay the last test and the final. They get more time to study, but those early D's don't go away and still count into their grade.
James Montren: Well, would you say that pretty much covers it?
Professor Lyman: I think so, Jim. There are some details that we didn't go over---like what happens when you get a P/NC, but your letter grade would have been a C+. Can you retake the course? What happens if what you do changes your status from full-time to part-time? But I am not worried about those problems, because if a student is serious about getting into the health professions, they had better be smart enough and have enough initiative to find out what the consequences of their actions are. After all, would you want to be treated by a health care professional who didn't have that kind of foresight?
James Montren: No, not particularly.
Professor Lyman: The only thing that I would add is that these "devices," these options we are talking about, should be used by students to prevent disaster. If a student drops a course, or withdraws, or does any of the rest just because they want to get a bunch of easy A's with a light course load, they are making a mistake, too.
James Montren: Thanks, Dr. Lyman.
Professor Lyman: My pleasure, Jim.
FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONSULT
FOR ACADEMIC CALENDARS visit the registrar
ACADEMIC ADVISING
at Melville Library, Room E 2360YOUR PROFESSOR
during office hours